Dropouts - Updated

These are for the rSogn, both in stainless steel:

Skoal,

Sean

rSogn Top Three Colors

In no particular order:

1. Rawland Red: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/12/rawlands-la-auto-show/

2. Pewter

3. Blue (specify shade)

All metallic a la the Drakkar.

Sean

rSogn Color

Here is the plan:

Wednesday - Nominate your color(s) of choice for the rSogn, and explain why. 

Thursday - Announcement of top three colors. Pick and/or prioritize your color(s).  

Friday- Announcement of the color for the prototype rSogn. 

You may begin...now!

Sean

Where I am on...

The rSogn:

• Rear-facing seat post clamp slot
• Lowrider and water bottle mounts for the low-trail fork
• Three water bottle mounts on the frame
• Seatstay rack mounts
• Equidistance rear fender mounts facing the tire
• Brake cable stops at 10 o’clock
• Stainless steel chain hanger
• Down tube shifter mounts
• 132.5 rear spacing. Or should it be 130? 135?
• TIG-welded (not filet-brazed) pump peg on the seat tube similar to this:

Comments?

Anything else?

Sean

Braze-Ons

Greetings and Salutations,

Here is what I have in mind:

A la the Drakkar:

• Head tube rings 
• Frame pump peg on the head tube
• 3 sets of water bottle cage mount
• Chainstay bridge with a fender mount
• Seatstay bridge with a fender mount
• Seatstay rack mounts
• Split brake housing stops at 10 o' clock

Drakkar pictures 

In addition:

• Down tube shifter bosses
• Chain hanger inside the drive-side seatstay (?)

Comment away.

Skoal,
Sean

Tuesday Tidbits

Now that we are past halfway through the process of designing rSogn, I wanted to share with you the following comments I have received on this process:

Your collaborative approach is refreshing in this industry.

Thank you for the opportunity to be part of this collaborative effort. I don't have the kind of technical knowledge and experience some of the other contributors have, but it's still exciting to feel like you are part of a team working to create a great riding bicycle that has wide-ranging capabilities. Kudos to you for this project. Some might say too many cooks blah blah, but I think that has not been the case here. It's been a lot of fun.

Looks fantastic. I'm following the discussion and would comment, but I can't think of anything I would add to the discussion that others haven't already touched on. As the design is revealed, I am liking all of your decisions.

I see Rawland as the direct descendant of the Bridgestone XO. While other companies are fixated on capturing the look of the nearly two decade-old bike, yours seems to capture the spirit of the XO-1...Much appreciated. I'm a retrogrouch, but I'm a practical one. I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing this frame develop.

I am excited by the new rSOGN design and would probably like to get on the pre-order list. I would like to wait till the the design is "finalized" before making the decision - but each day the design just keeps getting better. Thanks...

I just wanted to send you an email and offer my gratitude for you opening up your design process to potential customers...I have designed a few bikes myself and I spent countless hours pouring over each detail and revisiting practicality, function, aesthetics and more...Anyhow, I just wanted to reach out and give you my best.

Anna and I hope that you all too have the same experience. We also wish for for the process to avoid the groupthink phenomenon. We have been successful in that regard thus far.

Additionally, I have been asked if we may take pre-orders now. After discussing with Anna, I decided to keep the schedule as is. That means we will start taking pre-orders on Friday, October 1, after making announcements of final design details and colors (!). However, you may certainly email me to get on the list.

Last but not least, I have also been asked about offering the rSogn in titanium. Email me if you are interested in this option.  

Sean

rSogn Updates

Here is an updated geometry with the addition of size Small. This size is mostly proportional except for head and seat tube angles at 73 and 72 degrees, respectively. That is the best I can do without further compromising the proportion and ride.

The geometry also shows a slight change in rake from 60mm to 63mm. I decided to tweak the rake after riding a 60mm rake extensively with the Neo Moto, the Quasi Moto, the Hetre, and the Pari Moto over the weekend. This was also to address a minor design dilemma I had with the smaller frame sizes.

The standover height is now based on the Neo Moto 58c.

Click on the geometry to embiggen.

Small
Click on the picture to embiggen.

 
As far as tubing, I am now leaning toward 8/5/8 for all sizes. There might be a slight variation among certain frame sizes. I will share further details as they become available.

Skoal,
Sean

Tire Clearance and Tubing

With the geometry and sizes pretty much all set, it should be obvious by now that the rSogn would feature the same Pacenti MTB crown. This one has enough width for the Neo Moto 2.3, or 58c. The axle-to-crown length is set at 385mm.

The rear clearance would be set for the same tire, and will feature s-bend chainstays like those of the Drakkar. With this bend, one can set up the rSogn with contemporary road double cranks with outboard bearings, square-taper cranks with cartridge bottom brackets, and triple cranks.

Like the cSogn and dSogn, the rear spacing would be set at 132.5mm.

While we are at this, the rSogn with its capacity to take the Neo Moto 2.3 will have standard-diameter 9/6/9 tubing for all frame sizes. The head tube would be set for the now-ubiquitous 1 1/8" threadless steerer.

Comments?

Sean

rSogn Sizes

Here is an updated geometry and drawings of the rSogn in all three sizes with a 25mm head tube extension and less slope.

rSogn Geometry

Click on the table to embiggen.

Medium

Click on the drawing to embiggen.

Medium-Large

Click on the drawing to embiggen.

Large

Click on the drawing to embiggen.

Sean

rSogn Geometry and Sizes

Here is what we have after some more discussion yesterday. We seem to agree on the following numbers:

• 73d head tube angle
• 60mm rake
• 72d seat tube angle
• 44cm chainstay
• 65mm bottom bracket drop 

You will notice that this one has some more slope. I also wanted to add that the head tube appears longer because the axle-to-crown length is about 15mm shorter at 385mm. The 50mm head tube extension has reduced to 15mm as well.

Here is a drawing of the small rSogn as discussed:
Click on the drawing to embiggen. 

Here is what frame sizes and geometry for each respective size would be like. Just so you know I have decided to keep frame size system similar to that of the Drakkar.
Click on the table to embiggen. 

What say you?
Sean

rSogn

As a continuation of the discussion on geometry, I wanted to propose a completely different geometry and then present some more possibilities for discussion.

Based upon The One that started Rawland, this set is markedly different than the geometry as first proposed last week, and could be considered as the basis for the Olaf and the Sogn. It is for that reason I thought it would be worthwhile for us to compare both geometries and then go from there.

Second Geometry

•    Effective top tube length: 56 cm
•    Seat tube angle: 72
•    Head tube angle: 71.5
•    Rake: 54 mm
•    Axle-to-crown length: 385 mm
•    Trail: 59 mm; 54 mm on a 584 x 38 Pari Moto
•    Headtube length: 161 mm
•    Chainstay length: 45.5 cm
•    Bottom bracket drop: 70 mm
•    Standover height: 80 cm, based on a 584 x 52 Pacenti Quasi Moto

Here is a drawing with the second geometry:
Click on the drawings to embiggen.

For comparison, here is the rSogn as first proposed:

Possbilities:

•    Should the trail be much lower at 40 mm instead?
•    If so, should the head tube angle and rake be 73 degrees and 65mm, respectively?
•    How long should the chainstay be?
•    Should the head tube extension remain at 25 mm?
•    Should the bottom bracket drop remain at 70 mm? Or would 65 mm suffice?

Sean

Brake Configuration

As anticipated, yesterday’s discussion on wheel size was dead even between 650b and 700c. During this discussion, there were references to brake configuration and geometry not out of temptation but understandable necessity. It is for these reasons I have decided to let today’s topic on brake configuration determine the wheel size of the rSogn.

While we are at this, I wanted to suggest that the rSogn project is also a perfect opportunity for us to come up with a completely original concept. That could be like the cantilever Sogn or something that is currently unavailable. At any rate, the concept should be consistent with the “Any Bike, Anywhere” ethos of Chris Kostman.

To begin today’s discussion, please do review the comments from yesterday and then make a comment(s) on your preferred brake configuration. Let’s roll!

Sean

Tubing and Wheel Size

Tubing

One of the goals of the rSogn (reissued Sogn) is to reduce frameset weight. The rSogn would be available in three sizes: Small, Medium, and Large. These sizes would feature heat-treated Taiwanese tubing.

For the Small, the top and down tubes would be 7/4/7. The Medium would feature the same top tube, with a 8/5/8 down tube. Both the top and down tubes would be 8/5/8 for the Large. 

All top and down tubes would be 28.6 and 31.8 in diameter, respectively. Other parts of the frame and fork would be specified accordingly, with the stated goal of making the frame and fork as light as possible for a $600 frameset. 

Wheel Size

As we all can imagine, this topic could potentially determine the entire design direction of the rSogn. The requests for reissue received so far have been pretty much even between 650b and 700c.

As far as design and application are concerned, 650b is the ultimate wheel size. At the same time, 700c is readily available when it comes to small-block cyclocross tires, for example. Personally, I enjoy the benefits of the 650b size; however, I am still patiently awaiting a small-block 38c in this size.

To this end, I am fine with either 650b or 700c for the rSogn, and leave this up for discussion. 

Do share your thoughts and comments on these topics. 

Sean

rSogn

Greetings and salutations,

This is Rawland’s first blog posting in response to requests for the resurrection of the Sogn. Instead of ordering possibly a limited run of the same Sogn, Anna and I invite you to actively participate in the refinements of this venerable model. 

Starting tomorrow, we will post discussion topics until the 30^th when we will wrap up the refinement process with a final design recap by Rawland.  

Timeframe and Topics - Updated (10/18)

1. Tuesday, September 7, Announcement
2. Wednesday, September 8, Tubing and Wheel Size
3. Thursday, September 9, Brake Configuration
4. Monday, September 13, Geometry
5. Thursday, September 16, Tire Clearance
6. Monday, September 20, Fork
7. Thursday, September 23, Dropouts
8. Monday, September 27, Braze-Ons
9. Wednesday, September 30, Color Choices
10. Friday, October 1, Final Designs by Rawland and Announcement of Colors
11. Friday, October 1, $250 Deposits for pre-order special
12. Friday, October 15, Pre-order deadline and Price increases

Skoal,

SeAnna